Author: Scott Kinka

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The Bridge Podcast Dustin Young Enzu_Tag_RGB_Horiz_LOGOOn this episode of The Bridge, I’m joined by Dustin Young, EVP of Global Sales and Marketing at Enzu. We’re discussing whether it’s time for a VMware breakup and much more.

Enzu is built on their TruCloud® Private Cloud Platform. Enzu solutions fuel growth and innovation for small, medium, and large enterprises by delivering expert capabilities in Global Bare Metal, Private Cloud, Migrations off VMware, Networking, Cloud, and Security. Combining decades of unmatched customer focus and passion for excellence, they deliver premium and affordable infrastructure-as-a-service solutions. Enzu also offers other services, including Disaster Recovery, Managed Services, and Cloud Optimization services.

During our conversation, we get into what to do if you’re still trying to sort out your VMware problem — whether it’s time for organizations to break their reliance on VMware,  what comes next,  determining if it’s the UI that you’ve come to know and be comfortable with that and keeps you locked in, other burning questions that may lead you to a VMware breakup.

Topics covered in this episode:

  • Dustin’s career journey and how he landed at Enzu
  • Why the Broadcom acquisition of VMware will likely transform the company into a hyperscaler.
  • Why customers may face challenges and cost increases due to the acquisition.
  • The importance for customers to understand the risks and explore alternative options.
  • How VMware’s licensing changes and services bundling significantly impact customers.
  • Considerations for transitioning to alternative platforms.
  • How Enzu’s platform offers an abstraction layer and easy migration of VMs from VMware.

The Bridge Podcast Dustin Young Enzu_HEADSHOTAbout Dustin Young

Savvy business leader, proud Autism advocate and parent, and proud United States Marine Corps Veteran with over 15+ years generating maximum financial results in the telecommunications and technology sales industry. Creative talent recruiter and relationship builder, exemplified by the ability to lead teams and execute complex initiatives that benefit both the company and the client. Strong ability to develop sales channels, go-to-market strategies, and program structures that can be implemented worldwide to drive incremental revenue, reduce operating costs, and optimize scalability. Extensive experience in enterprise mobility, big data, network design, and analytics. Proven skills in the development of strong revenue producing programs from green field to production in a start-up environment. High level of initiative and motivation that enables me to work well in an office or from home using video communications and collaborative efforts to succeed.

While the VP of Sales, I have grown overall revenue by 232%, signed 12 Master Agents, added 2 wholesale companies as clients, and partnered with Global Telecommunications Carriers

Oversaw all Channel Sales for a Tier 1, facilities based, business-grade IP service provider with a robust private IP network.

Built a program from scratch which later earned 47% of the company’s $34MM annual revenue stream

Served in a short term contract position developing the legal language and contracts needed to launch a channel program for a VAR, which is still currently in use

Gained remarkable revenue increases throughout my tenure: 318% in 2005, 263% in 2006, 245% in 2007, and 102% in 2008

Built an award winning SaaS Platform with my Engineering Team at O1 Communications

Earned the Top Sales Representative Award in the San Jose/Sacramento branch 23 of the 38 months

Contact Dustin

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Full Transcript

Scott Kinka:

Well, hello and welcome to another episode of The Bridge. Super excited about this episode. I have Dustin Young on with me today. Dustin, how are you?

Dustin Young:

Doing well, doing well.

Scott Kinka:

Fantastic. Dustin is the EVP of Global Sales and Marketing for Enzu, and we hatched up the idea to have this episode frankly at Channel Partners when the VMware Broadcom Madness was reaching a little bit of its zenith, at least in our community. It was, and we’ll harken back to that in a minute. But I’ve got Dustin on the show, as I said in the pre, to be a little bit counterpoint here, so I asked him in the pre-show if he’s allowed to be as controversial as he wants. If you’re thinking about where you’re at in this VMware journey, Dustin’s here to represent perhaps an alternative way of thinking. We’ll get into that as we go, but I want to start with Dustin, who has a great story to tell that starts with the flags behind him. So, Dustin, we’ll get to Enzu in a minute. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you arrived at this point in your career.

Dustin Young:

Oh, man. All right. Let’s see. I’ll try not to take up too much time here. So I think things that are fascinating, so obviously flagged behind me, are the United States Marine and the fifth generation military. It is a family tradition to serve the country, and it was an amazing experience. I believe that I walked away from the Marine Corps ready to lead and actually have that part of my career go well. Some real key things are a big part of my life. My son has autism. He’s actually turning 21 this Friday, which is just daggering. So he’s a young adult at this point, and that life advocacy, working with people with autism, has been fascinating and it’s actually had a real impact on my career in many ways. Also gave me some insights into the type of person I am and how I manage people because I started to understand what management under real stress looks like when you have a child who definitely has challenges in their life. That’s been a really fascinating component, and I’ve tried to support different groups, such as those with technology and autism, those who have a technology background, those who are trying to help with technology, jobs and autism, and all those things. So, it’s been a pretty significant part of my life. I do search and rescue. That really came about because I sort of missed some of what the military brings to the world, that camaraderie of a group. And then, with search and rescue, it’s volunteerism. You are out in the community working with people. There are a lot of facts about search and rescue that, if anybody ever wants to ask me to discuss outside of something like this, they’re really fascinating. But the biggest thing for me was to give back to B. Most people aren’t trying to get lost. They aren’t trying to have something bad happen to them in the woods, and they’re in an unfortunate situation. And then part of what drove that goes back to David having autism. When children with autism get lost, a lot of times, they search for water, and they also won’t call back to you. They’re very scared and dunno what to do. So I thought I understood it and wanted to be a part of helping people who might be in that situation because that is not going to be a great place to be in life. Fortunately, I’ve not had to experience that, so I don’t don’t want to either. So it’s part of what made me want to give back. Fun fact.

Scott Kinka:

Dustin, thank you for the journey you just gave us right there. Thank you for that.

Dustin Young:

Yeah, just trying to give back to the community I’m a part of.

Scott Kinka:

Hey, thanks for doing the right thing. It means a lot. One is your military service, but also what you’re doing. It’s great. It’s a super cool story. Give us a little bit of perspective on how all that sort of leaned into the career. How did you land where you are now? Walk us if you would

Dustin Young:

Got in the military. Did my time in college with a background in business and then an MBA and an EMBA, actually in marketing, and it was funny; I I had started my first outside sales job in barter and trade if anybody even remembers that going on in history and was banging on doors. And one of the doors I banged on was the sales manager of WorldCom, and he was like, we met, and I knew I loved tech, and I knew I was trying to figure that out, and he offered me an opportunity to go in and sell Telco and learn it. From there, my career has grown. I started to learn. I started to get certifications, and ten-ish years ago or a little more, I knew the telco run had ended. I built a couple of programs, and I spent some time on satellites, so I spent some time doing cool projects around the world. But at that time, I actually thought a lot about what was happening next. The world was evolving pretty quickly as a service technologies, I mean, as a service was exploding anything. And I had gone to that CEOI had built that channel program and said, Hey, we own a couple of small data centers, why don’t we process the data and become the service for data delivery methodologies for the oil and gas industry for a lot of our clients. He had a different project he was in the middle of, and we didn’t do it. So, I made the decision to go back to being a sales rep so I could learn cloud infrastructure in the field every day while dealing with customers, and it was fantastic and amazing. And I believe you asked how my background, so David is you talk about a setback in your life and challenges and then you emerge as something the military breaks you down and allows you to come out how you’re going to be as an adult for the most part and give you these frameworks to understand that life brings different challenges and you either embrace them and make the decisions that are no matter what the move looks like to be where you’re going to be next. And I think that that background gave me the freedom to move around in my career. I also had an amazing mentor who told me once that because I was very worried when I took a step back with David, I was never going to get a lead. I was 28, I built a program, I had a lot of employees, and I took a step back to a different role, and then he said, Dustin, you’ll come out just fine. I promised you, but I just don’t know yet. You’re young, and I understand your fear. And so all of that sort of led to me being okay with being uncomfortable.

Scott Kinka:

And that pushed you through a couple of pretty well-known data center and cloud providers recently ending at Enzu. I want to take one second to just jump to the overall topic. You don’t need to spill all your popcorn now we’re going to get into it, but interestingly enough, a couple of those providers in the middle people we’ve had in the show, people who are friends, frankly, you and I had a little bit of shared history in the VMware servers provider space trying to wrangle that beast. It becomes something that feels multi-tenant. We believed the vCloud director stories there for a while that it could be a portal. Got all that. Ultimately, I ended up focusing on other technologies, and I’m back to selling a lot of this stuff now and consulting on this stuff at Bridgepoint. You, however, have now ended up at Enzu, where you’re not supporting VMware technologies, I should say, directly on your platform. You’re supporting VMware customers and I know that’s what we’re going to talk about today, but what kind of led to land outside of that ecosystem?

Dustin Young:

So, there are one or two things we do here. The other is bare metal, so one was metal, and containerization has existed longer than virtualization. The cloud shift is significant and happening now. All of those things. Plus, it was in the VMware space, in the VMware service provider space. It is what things we can bolt together to make a product, and you spend your life trying to bring all the different reps to a meeting and trying to manage all the components to get the deal done. For a lot of reasons, customers want to use a lot of technologies, and they’re good technologies. But one, it was time I wanted to go back, and I wanted to build my own program differently than I’d ever built one before, and I wanted the opportunity to do that, and they gave me that here and that’s been spectacular. On the other hand, it was almost time to do what was old and new again. So virtualization before VMware was powerful and existed. There are plenty of platforms. Linux has always been a powerhouse in this world, so I just wanted to get back to it. I wanted to understand the rest of cloud computing, high-performance computing, and the things that I wasn’t touching at the service providers.

Scott Kinka:

Got it. So you mentioned a little bit of what Enzu does, but maybe this is a good stepping off point. We’re in the elevator together, right? We’re going to spend our time focusing on kind of the VMware alternative, but let’s get in the elevator together for 60 seconds. Give me the Enzu story.

Dustin Young:

Yeah, building blocks. We are a building block approach to cloud technology, and I think that gives us the opportunity to develop a solution that is incredibly user-friendly and gives people the ability to customize and move freely within it by embracing open standards. We actually help to mitigate vendor lock-in, something we can talk about more later, and we actually help people start to develop applications and products as they want to instead of developing them to a particular technology, and they’re able to address all those things with us, and that’s a big part of what makes us strong. Seventeen years of doing it, as I said, bare metal private cloud and very family-oriented company with a hundred percent US-owned US support, and we have around a knock around the sun, following the sun model. I’ll get there someday on that one, and we will manage all that very, very well. But you’re getting us support, and you’re getting a lot of very, very technical teams. Our CEO is staggeringly technical, not something you actually see in a lot of CEOs.

 

Deciphering the VMware Shift: Seeking Alternatives Amidst Uncertainty

Scott Kinka:

Got it. So bare metal private cloud boutique is the wrong word, and customize is probably the wrong word..Let’s say flexible solutions to design hybrid and private cloud scenarios that enable people to move a layer below orchestration, right? Yes. That’s the category I’m using to define the VMware and the others. Get a layer below that, use the underlying tools and build a cloud that makes sense for that and is focused on us. Get it? Did I do an okay job? Super simplifying that, super oversimplifying that. Okay, gotcha. So, let’s jump into the topic at hand. I mean when we met a couple of weeks ago at Channel Partners by the pool, you and I might’ve had a few less than everybody else around the pool. It was the last day of the show, everybody was exhausted, but we got into this conversation because we had had a couple of recent episodes that had aired around this topic. It was certainly the buzz of Las Vegas amongst the whole distribution community because the service matters were they’re still shaken out like, hey, we’re VMware just called us this, we’re premier, or we’re so we’re good, and those are all good stories. Again, getting back to your point, we’re not taking shots at all the individual paths, but we want to make sure the customers understand all the paths. This was all just shaken. We were channel partners, and it would be a good idea for us to get on and just offer a counterpoint to the idea of where the new home for my VMware is. Maybe we answer the question, where’s the new home for my workloads, a little more general, and that was really what this was sort of designed, you know what I mean to do. So let me ask a high level question. One or two first insights on the Broadcom announcement and what it’s meant for you guys.

Dustin Young:

Well, it’s been a game-changer for us. Christmas Eve was a spectacular moment. Actually, normally, from Christmas Day to New Year’s, I ski, and I kind of take a break and try to get some free time. I cancelled most of that because I knew what had just happened. I spent two years educating myself on this. Listen, Broadcom has announced they’re going to buy ’em. When it finally goes through, there will be significant changes. Broadcom a little side, there’s two ways to make money on Broadcom own their stock and whatever else they do, make sure you’re ready to take out whatever happens underneath. It’s a huge shift that always occurs when Broadcom buys a company, so they’re valid and know what they’re doing. It wasn’t accidental, but I also knew it would be very significant to us because this message that I had been sharing would be transformative, and you’ll have to be ready for that. Don’t know what that means yet, right? I’ve been a little surprised by some of it, but for us it’s been really cool to see that education start to really emerge as, wait a minute, we need to look at how we manage our workloads and where we manage our workloads and is this still right for us with where they’re heading for a multitude of reasons cost being one, people are not real happy about the idea of bundles. We’re seeing that message start, tick, come to fruition. There’s all these things, and for us, it really brought to light that we are here to support customers with a really good design.

Scott Kinka:

Yeah. Dustin, you mentioned being surprised a minute ago. What surprised you in that or what surprised you in what you’re hearing?

Dustin Young:

So the common thing, I believe, and this is something we can explore, I think, is that they’re going to become a hyper scaler, and their messaging is not off that mark, and they have made certain decisions, in my opinion, it’s my opinion that says they’re going to essentially do what Oracle did. Wall Street loves the message. I mean, Wall Street loves this message and so I believe that for now this is the gap where it’s the fill of the gap for customers like, hey, you still have ways to get to us, but eventually, I think the roadmap for them is to be hyper scaler, and I believe that started when they created the model that said, this group of customers only can buy through us now. They made that shift, and as soon as they made that shift, I started to go. Well, that’s not what I expected to happen first.

Scott Kinka:

That one surprised you at broadcast for somebody who’s not at fault. A lot of what we said makes sense to service providers mean who’ve seen the movie a couple of times. So for those who haven’t been following along at home and are VMware customers but really haven’t watched the market in the same way that we have because we’re living in it every day. VMware has been acquired a couple of times over 20 years, what makes this any different?

Dustin Young:

Everybody else, in my opinion, who has bought VMware has tried to use the change almost nothing and just eek it out through efficiencies. Whether it’s they’ve limited the number of engineers who do develop, they’ve done all these things to just try to make it more efficient and create small profitability gains, and they’ve all looked a lot, they look like house flippers, and I think some of ’em genuinely thought the technology would be good for them, but they really, you can’t have a hardware provider buy a software provider and have a different outcome than what happened because they’re really about trying to bring costs down while keeping prices to the market stable. And I dunno how you do that much more than everybody else had tried. That’s what makes it transform them.

Scott Kinka:

They’ve done something, I mean they announced they were doing something different where the others, you’re right, they just sort of tucked it in EBITDA play skinny up operations. It’s a portfolio thing for us which explains why they could sell it to somebody else. It never really got integrated into the business.

Dustin Young:

At the end of the day, Broadcom’s going to transform the organization into something it’s never been.

Scott Kinka:

Makes perfect sense. And they have a history of doing that, obviously, with the other acquisitions that they’ve made. Dustin, you and I talk to customers every day, right? You’re there on the service provider side; Bridgepoint is probably arguably the largest consulting broker in the data center and in cloud space in a country. We’re talking to customers every day, every day. What’s your impression of what customers know? I know this sounds crazy after all this madness, but do customers really understand what the risk is for them right now? Is it different based on their size?

Dustin Young:

Yes. I am still determining who actually knows what their risk is yet, good or bad. I don’t know who can actually identify that very well yet. The enterprise is the early movers, and it’s because they often own a lot of their technology, so the bundles aren’t three times the increase. Everybody’s quantification. The one we saw was more than a hundred times there are these staggering numbers, and we think they’re anomalies and yet in my last ten meetings with enterprise clients, they’re all fairly similar, and it’s the way they’ve currently ingested the technology. And so if you’re below the enterprise because of the enterprise, they’re in the same fight. Perpetual licensing wasn’t actually perpetual. Just ask every other time somebody told ’em it was perpetual. It wasn’t true, and they’re in that fight because now they’re being told, you have to go buy these bundles. And they’re like, no, no, we want ESX and that’s it. We own the rest of our world, and we actually have built our entire management plan on our own, and they were told too bad, here’s the bundle. And so they’re out, gone, gone. They can do a lot of this. The people tax. They don’t suffer the people tax because they are always innovating and driving business. They’ve got the people to go power through this message. The mid-market is about to not only take a cost beating, but they are already Listening. They’re taking a cost beating on power in the data center. These things exist, right? And we’re seeing costs go up when, normally, in technology, we see the cost go down. The data center needs to always go downward, and the needs to go downward. Well, for the first time, we see all these cost increases in these market spaces and the mid-market. It’s not like it landed on their doorstep because I believe they do buy a lot through service providers, and the service providers are. Are you ready for this? And little they’re out there sharing a very protective message. No, no, we got it. We got our arms around it. We’ll help you through. We can navigate the bundles. Listen, if they’ve already figured out how to navigate the bundles, I’m a monkey’s uncle. I’ve seen the bundles, and it’s just like going into teams and deciding one of your employees has to have this thing. All the bundles are broken because you’ve got to go back and figure out if you are an 81 anymore. Are you an 82 anymore? What do you have to buy to make that feature work? That’s still super unknown, and the mid-market is coming into that probably between now and the next 18 months, and it is helping them know it’s coming so they can respond so that they don’t have the finance leader doesn’t walk in and go, what is this bill? Or what is this in front of me? This drastically changes our underlying cost model to our clients.

Scott Kinka:

I mean a hundred percent, and it’s done in a couple of ways. I mean, certainly, the big companies who thought they were buying perpetual, your statement about perpetual notwithstanding, which I agree with, but thought they were buying perpetual and advertising licensing, and it was in a whole different spot on the balance sheet of the business. All of that is massive. The bigger one, to your point, is that bundling up is really the challenge of buying these things individually. I chose something else for my storage orchestration, for instance, orchestration and portal. I chose something else for reporting and performance monitoring, but I use VMware as the hypervisor for my ESX licenses. There they are. Now you got to buy that with all of these things. So I love the people who are rather going, well, the licensing really didn’t change on a per unit basis, but VMware had something like 1200 SKUs, and now they have 30, right? So that’s the thing. Now I do think it’s fair, and we can fight this a little bit. I do think it’s fair. Obviously, service providers are buying licensing in such bulk and using it in different ways that they’re going to get super creative. I’ve got five of these, and 10 of these run these over here, and they’re playing an economics game to try to keep margins similar and making commitments to customers to not raise pricing on existing but maybe do something in the future. That’s the story we’re hearing out there in the world right now. But it’s certainly to your point. I mean, for customers who have it on-site, 100% has an effect on customers who have it in a cloud service rather than VMware-based. They’ve got to understand their strategy at the very least. I think all of those things kind of beg the next question, which is, as a guy who’s been on both sides of the aisle, you are talking to a, and for the sake of argument, let’s stick with the mid-market CIO for a moment. Is it time to know if they’ve got a staff of four or five VMware-trained admins or certified admins managing their infrastructure right now? Is it time for them to think about alternatives, and why?

Dustin Young:

Yeah, because their plan for moving forward will be harder in some ways. And if they’re not, again, I will go back to them. They’ll need to consider how they respond to this. They want to avoid being put in the position of reacting, including the impacts and implications of that. So it is a good time to start that process, and it is a good time for them to understand and really dig in on their service provider and how they plan to go forward. Not just manage their cost structure, but what ultimately understanding how the bundles work. So if they want to feature, how is that going to impact them? Then, the other thing is if you are going to make a change, you need to start testing that software to determine how easy it is for your VM admins and VMware admins to use a different technology.

 

Navigating the Transition: VMware Admins Embrace New Horizons with Enzu

Scott Kinka:

Yeah. What is that transition like? Dustin, in your mind, the average VMware admin probably been doing the same thing in VMware for a decade plus. They build an alternative infrastructure with you guys. What’s that learning curve?

Dustin Young:

Is it with us? It’s not much and I think that gets really fascinating. We’ve done it enough times with people. Our portal and management plane were really designed to simplify the management plane. So a lot of them get in, and they’re like, oh, I manage VMs here. Oh, that feels familiar. I manage v lance here. And we made it very simple and very intuitive and we didn’t wander wildly off the page. A lot of people have gone out and used KDM or somewhere like TAR, and then they get wildly off the page, all this dev work and instead of focusing on the APIs and the calls and the webhooks to get into Slack, they focused on making a really fancy front end, and it becomes very complicated. We focused on a simplified front end, so for us, it’s not very challenging,g and often, it simplifies i.d. I’ll tell you that that goes back to part of the original thing I talked about. Our company, you manage production, DR firewall, V Lands, VMs High, all in one management claim all in one portal. So I go into this single pane glass, so that’s one of my favorite changes. There are a lot of terms in the industry that are sort of misleading by nature. I don’t mean to be, but they are. What they mean is a single place where you kind of have a dashboard, and then when you click a button, it goes, okay, now you got to log in over here, and you can actually manage this thing. Finally, you have to remember all those logins, and that is just because they are bolted-together technologies, and that’s the way it works. It’s hard to get around that. There’s never been a great front end that was able to do it well because we don’t bolt in all those third-party technologies. Again, we focus on APIs and webhooks in customer environments. They’ve just managed their world in one place for the first time with us if they’ve never used this before, and that’s much easier to transition.

Scott Kinka:

Dustin, I think we’re so accustomed to thinking about the cloud, and you could define that many ways, but hosting environments in terms of hypervisor, not in terms of the totality. So when we’re talking about alternatives to VMware, I’m going to toss an objection from the listeners now going, right, well, if this guy’s saying I’m moving from VMware, what am I moving to? Am I moving to Enzu? Am I moving to, like you mentioned, KVM earlier for the guy who we can’t reprogram? People are thinking about the hypervisor as the base building block, which I think we know is only one of many, but what are they moving to in your world?

Dustin Young:

So, for us, they’re moving to what looks a little bit more like an abstraction layer. They’re moving to KVM technology as a hypervisor, and again, it’s really about the APIs and the portal that make that magical. We didn’t go messing around with kvm. It works very well with the technology. If somebody’s out there doing the hypervisor shop, they’re like, Hey, I use VMware, and they think about VMware more like a hypervisor and not V director and not my center. They’re not thinking about it as a management claim per se. You’re going to get into whether I go to prox, open source, or KVM. They’re going to think about the hypervisor layer probably more than anything else, and then they’re going to try to decide, well then they need, what do I get with that hypervisor layer? And then that conversation tends to unfold. We actually just got, somebody was like, Hey, we’re comparing something like you guys to prox mocks and to Red Hat virtualization, and I replied back, that’s cool, but Red Hat virtualizations end of life. So I’m a little bit perplexed here at what you’re looking at, right?

Scott Kinka:

Yeah, I think it’s an interesting point, though. A minute ago, you were like people who think about VMware as the interface. At the end of the day, the virtualization of the machine is the part of the technology that the end customer really isn’t interfacing with. You’re picking a platform that wraps it up in a neat little box, and it is what it is you’re interfacing with is that orchestration layer that you were talking about that in this world is an Enzu orchestration layer with a QVM base and many other things that you’ve orchestrated around storage and networking and firewalling and security and all those elements. I want to make sure we get to this, though. If I’m thinking about that transition, what am I doing? Am I picking up, am I picking up A-V-M-D-K and sticking it on Enzu? How does that work?

Dustin Young:

Walk literally, yes. So we can ingest O-V-A-B-M-D-K because we stayed, we didn’t get crazy with our technology and lock it down layers so you can bring in all these file formats, and we can ingest them very, very well, and we actually can do that work. So if somebody’s like, Hey, I’ve got a team that can manage it, but I don’t really want them migrating it, we’ll actually do the migration component for them, get them up and running, and then we do either a self-managed private cloud or a co-managed private cloud. So I think, Unlike when they’re with their VMware service provider, they’re paying for all these management things, even if they’re still doing a lot of the work themselves. And so they’re in a mostly managed world. Very few people are in a fully managed world because nobody’s doing their applications for the most part of our world. So we work side by side with them. There are things they can preschedule, and we can do it, or we’re just like, Hey, everything below, we’ve got it. We’re going to keep everything past and monitored and all update. I’m going to jump back on when I say we’re kind of like an abstraction layer because what makes that unique is, say down the road, KVM becomes a bad tick, something goes wrong, that layer can be pulled with a hypervisor put in and no customers running smoothly as the day. So, by not creating a world that’s so locked down to technology, we actually are given these freedoms to move. It also means in our design, and this is a little secret sauce, but it’s getting out there through the messaging. They can customize the portal patch, the portal monitor, and the portal. It’s their portal. So if a customer’s like, Hey, can I have this feature? We can build it and put it in their portal, and we don’t have to update every other customer whatsoever because, again, it’s a building block approach.

Scott Kinka:

So that abstraction or orchestration layer is living in their private cloud or on their metal, correct? So private you can move as rapidly as their change management policies will allow as opposed to them being tied to your change management policies, which platform Universal in some cases where if you take the VMware model and you’re like, we’re based on vCloud director, well, the reality of it then is every underlying ESX host needs to be updated to then make adjustments to the vCloud Director model. Makes perfect sense. What would you

Dustin Young:

And it means a customer can hold you hostage in that environment

Scott Kinka:

A hundred percent and have dealt with that frankly from the service provider side. I’ve sat in issues; I’ve been on those phone calls, right? You’re holding us up from progress, and then you’re like, alright, can we cord these guys off to these hosts while you lose? Now getting back to trying to outrun the bundles, right? The value in many ways when you were scaling as a service provider, a VMware environment is your ability to not have to extract hosts and stick ’em off to the side. You wanted them in the pool, right? Correct. Because now your ratios, so there’s a whole other thing there, and I’m sure there are some people who’ve worked at service providers who were having PTSD as I was just going through that, but we’ve all been there. How do you build that up? Let me throw an objection at you; we’ll be a little controversial here, and then we’ll jump into a couple of fun questions. But you’ve mentioned a lock-in, and I can pull the hypervisor out. Maybe that’s actually the answer to the question, but I’m looking at you, and I’m going, I was VMware, and at least it was VMware, and everybody had it. We all had the same problem when we had. I,t. I got a bunch of people trained, so now I’m going to pick that u,p and I’m picking at those VMDK,s and I’m going to slide ’em over her,e and they’re going to be sitting on the NNC platform,m and I can take my Lego,s and I can build the thing I want, but then am I not locked into Enzu?

Dustin Young:

What’s yours? I say there’s not a hundred percent freedom from vendors, and I don’t actually debate. I don’t try to say we free you from vendor lock-in from the perspective that you’re using our management plan, so you are managing within that plane, and that’s just the reality. It’s the truth of it all. The difference is I’m not walking you in on all the rest of the technology, and I get into it. It’s really fascinating. People say, oh, it’s VMware. Well, AWS isn’t built on VMware, so people have been working in KVM for quite some time. It’s actually massive in the world. These technologies aren’t a secret. And when I talked earlier a little bit about philosophical alignment, one of the reasons we didn’t try to make big alterations and then lock people down is that you think about, listen, AWS’s amazing technology. It’s all these really cool technologies out there, but what is it? If you are somebody who has been around a long time and you’ve done a lot of virtualization, that drives you absolutely crazy about AW Ws, and the answer is they took a Linux-based solution, they didn’t give back to the Linux community, and they locked that shit down And that drives people crazy. Well, we are the opposite approach to that. We understand we give back to the community, we participate in all of that. We didn’t lock it down. We didn’t try to manipulate a great technology. We participate in Reddit communications. All of these things are out there, and yeah, it is our management plan. There’s no doubt about it, but we also give you third-party webhooks for all these other tools. So, quite frankly, you can sort of manage, but ultimately, at the end of the day, you’re going to want to use the manage.

Scott Kinka:

The bottom line is if you’re creating the customer asset, they are still standard assets at the end of the day, and I think you mentioned in our pre-call if somebody decided they wanted to get away, not only do you have that abstraction layer, but your model makes it easier for them to leave. In a lot of ways, you’ve given them paths to do that. Not that they shouldn’t certainly, but it gives them.

 

Shameless Predictions and Software Giants: A Bold Forecast on Broadcom and VMware

Dustin Young:

The ability to run the hybrid cloud. They want to run and move that data as needed.

Scott Kinka:

Fantastic. This is a great conversation, Dustin. We can go on forever. We’re approaching that magic 40 minute mark where people start to tune out. So, I’m going to rapid-fire you on the fun here at the end, if you don’t mind. We’ve got three minutes and 50 seconds left, so we’re just going to hit them, not fast. The first one’s easy. What are you reading right now? What’s on your end table? Share some of the things that let you shut your brain down at night.

Dustin Young:

So, sadly, I read a lot about building bands, and I’m building a sprinter van out right now, and I would love to do that kind of work. But from a business book, it’s trust-based leadership, and it’s a former Austin Marine Corps. Brilliant Marine Corps leadership is a little bit unique in the military and it’s been fantastic. It’s a reminder of the things I learned, the ability to reengage and really improve, and how I help people come along and become really great and move on in their lives. 

Scott Kinka:

I love that. We’ll find that and put a link to it in the show notes. Alright, that’s one. Second one. We might learn a little bit about the Sprinter van on this question here because I don’t know, maybe that’s your end of the world prep, but let’s assume that whatever the next pandemic is here occurs. You get one app that is still working on your phone. That’s it. You get to choose which one. Which one is it?

Dustin Young:

That’s a great question.

Scott Kinka:

I mean, I am assuming it’s your spray product?

Dustin Young:

Probably just Ox off-road or something where I have the ability to navigate the woods. Well, yeah.

Scott Kinka:

Okay. I like it. Perfect. You’re like, I’m out. I’m checking out. So, just give me something that enables me to navigate to wherever I’m hiding out. So I like that. That makes sense. Last one can be a little bit business could be fun, but I need a shameless prediction for the next 18 months, just what’s going to occur. We’re going to look back at this, and we’ll have a laugh.

Dustin Young:

Broadcom finally announces the hyper scale version of VMware

Scott Kinka:

Yeah, you dropped that early on.

Dustin Young:

I did. I did. Yeah, and it’s because, yeah, it’s an interesting

Scott Kinka:

Dustin, we dealt with that in the VMware service provider community a couple of times. They started it, and then they’re like, I’ve in many ways said the same thing. I did it on the Cisco side, wherewith BroadSoft and things of that nature. Are you our competitor? Are you our friend? What are we? I generally find that software companies make crappy service providers. I’ll just say that historically.

Dustin Young:

That’s my thing. That’s what Broadcom shifting. I think they’re ending them as a software company.

Scott Kinka:

Well, we will find out, and we’ll come back and see if it happens. Here’s my commitment to you. This was your prediction. If it happens before 18 months, that’s just the next episode we do. I will literally have you on that weekend lab just talking about that, and we’re at 39 minutes, so that’s also perfect. We’re going to come underneath this. Dustin, this was as fun as I knew it was going to be. Thanks for joining us here on the bridge. Dustin Young is the EVP of Global Sales and Marketing at Enzu. It took the counterpoint for us, and we’ll attach these episodes around the VMware and Broadcom story together. Dustin, thanks so much for being a guest here on the bridge.

Dustin Young:

Yeah, thanks, Scott.

Scott Kinka:

Alright, man, that was super awesome.