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In this episode, host Scott Kinka sits down with Shane Cleckler, Director of Sales Engineering, and Jeff Martis, Senior Director of Product Management at Sangoma, to explore why hybrid deployments are the real differentiator in unified communications, how to meet customers where they actually are (not where vendors want them to be), and the key strategies for solving survivability and resilience without forcing migration to cloud. Whether you’re rationalizing your post-pandemic collaboration spend or building a UC roadmap that actually works for your business, this conversation cuts through the noise with practical frameworks for evaluating cloud, on-premise, and hybrid options—plus why the most successful vendors are thinking like integrators again.
What you will learn:
- Why hybrid UC deployments are a permanent “flavor” rather than a temporary stopgap measure
- How to think about site survivability and network redundancy beyond just dual internet circuits
- The real-world use cases where cloud-only solutions fail (hospitals, manufacturing, schools, law firms)
- Why UC is about to annex adjacent domains like digital signage, video surveillance, and environmental sensors
- The consultative approach to replacing outdated RFPs with business-outcome-focused solutions
- How the industry has come full circle from product sales to integration to SaaS and back to solutions engineering
- Why simplicity beats feature bloat in collaboration tools—and why 50 features means 45 you’ll never use
- Sangoma’s partner-first strategy and why they meet partners “nine-tenths of the way”
About the Guest:
Shane Cleckler is the Director of Sales Engineering at Sangoma, bringing over 25 years of VoIP and unified communications expertise from the Dallas area. Since the late 1990s and early 2000s, Shane has been deeply embedded in the evolution of voice technology—from the days when people couldn’t spell VoIP to today’s integrated, cloud-native UC platforms. His philosophy centers on consultative selling: understanding business problems first, then architecting solutions that often combine multiple platforms rather than forcing customers into rigid product boxes. Outside of work, Shane is pursuing an unexpected passion: becoming a hot air balloon pilot.
Jeff Martis is the Senior Director of Product Management at Sangoma, representing the Philadelphia area with nearly 25 years in telecommunications. His career spans the entire arc of the industry’s transformation, and he’s worked across diverse customer segments—from large dealer partners to mom-and-pop bakeries, hospitals, schools, retail chains, and manufacturing plants. Jeff’s product philosophy is refreshingly contrarian: he believes the industry needs fewer features, not more, and that simplicity leads to less regret and doubt. His reading list includes The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle, and his preferred productivity tool is decidedly analog: a physical notepad where he can experience the satisfaction of checking items off by hand.
To find out how Bridgepointe Technologies helps businesses make IT decisions faster with world-class engineering support and ongoing guidance, head to https://bridgepointetechnologies.com/
Episode Timeline:
- [0:00] Introduction
- [01:27] Meet Shane Cleckler and Jeff Martis
- [02:50] Current Trends in Remote and Hybrid Work
- [04:08] Utilizing Existing Tools for Digital Transformation
- [06:51] The Sangoma Differentiator: Cloud, Hybrid and On-Prem
- [09:32] Why Local Survivability Matters
- [12:43] Moving Beyond AI Buzzwords
- [16:11] Advice for CIOs on Rationalizing Tech Spend
- [20:54] The Importance of a Partner-First Strategy
- [22:58] Bold Predictions: The Future of UC Integration
- [24:11] Contrarian View: The Case for Tech Simplicity
- [25:19] Lightning Round and Final Leadership Advice
Episode Highlights:
● [04:42] You Already Have the Tools—Just Flip a Switch
When the pandemic hit, Sangoma customers frantically called asking, “We have remote workers now, what do we do?” Shane’s response was simple: “You already have the tools, you just need to start using them.” For many organizations, the capabilities for remote collaboration—voice, video, SMS, file sharing—were already embedded in their systems. They just hadn’t activated them. The pandemic didn’t create a technology gap; it exposed a utilization gap. Once customers started using these features, the floodgates opened. Suddenly, requests came pouring in: “I want this, I want that, and I want it all to look exactly how I want it.” The lesson? Sometimes the barrier to digital transformation isn’t technology—it’s awareness and adoption.
● [07:22] Cloud, Hybrid, or On-Prem: Meeting the Customer Where They Are
Sangoma’s core differentiator in a crowded UC market is flexibility. While most providers are “a dime a dozen” in the cloud or have abandoned on-premise entirely, Sangoma offers cloud, hybrid, and on-premise solutions. This isn’t just a marketing position—it’s a strategic philosophy. Jeff explains: “We can meet the customer where they are. They might start in the cloud, realize they need something completely theirs, and then we can move them into a hybrid or on-prem environment.” Many competitors viewed hybrid as a temporary stopgap or “straddling point,” but Sangoma discovered that hybrid is actually a permanent “flavor” that customers swear by. It provides site survivability, control, and flexibility without requiring full-time IT staff to manage premise equipment. The takeaway? In a world obsessed with cloud migration, the smartest vendors recognize that one size doesn’t fit all.
● [09:58] Site Survivability: The Mission-Critical Feature You’re Ignoring
When Scott challenged Shane on why customers need local survivability—”Can’t I just build a redundant internet network?”—Shane’s answer was brutally practical: “Redundant internet is fantastic, but it’s not a total failsafe.” He’s seen cases where a trackhoe breaks both connections because they terminate at the same point in the building. For hospitals, manufacturing plants, schools, and law firms—organizations that simply cannot afford downtime—the hybrid model provides peace of mind. Even with dual internet circuits, you need local survivability to keep station-to-station communication up during outages. These customers aren’t theoretical; they come to Sangoma after already experiencing these problems. The lesson for IT leaders: Don’t optimize for cost. Optimize for resilience.
● [14:35] AI Hype vs. Real Business Problems
When asked about AI, Jeff’s response was refreshingly grounded: “What do you actually need to do? Let’s not talk about what’s possible; let’s talk about your pain points.” Too many companies are selling AI as a product rather than a solution to specific problems. Shane echoed this consultative approach, noting that customers often come in stuck on needing “X, Y, and Z” because that’s what they’ve always had—sometimes based on RFPs written for strategic needs decades ago. The better approach? “Tell me what your business issues are and what you’re trying to achieve, and let us create a solution.” Sometimes that solution isn’t a single platform; it’s a culmination of multiple integrated tools. The AI conversation is the perfect example: Stop chasing buzzwords. Start solving problems.
- [18:04] Full Circle: From Integrators to SaaS and Back
Scott made a sharp observation: “I feel like voice providers have almost gone back to being integrators. We went from integrators to SaaS platforms, and now the successful SaaS people are acting like integrators again.” Jeff confirmed this pattern, comparing it to HGTV renovation shows where one house needs bold colors and the next needs neutrals. The UC world has cycled through bundled offerings, then a la carte pricing, and now back to bundled solutions. It’s cyclical, and “the only constant is uncertainty.” Sangoma’s approach? Stay consistent by providing solutions, not widgets. Jeff recounted stories of customers on other systems who just needed firewall whitelisting fixes or better IT staff—and once that was resolved, they were fine. “I’m not trying to force people out of their comfort zone; I just want them to think about what they are trying to achieve rather than just following the latest market trend.”.
Quotes:
- “We need to do less, better. In technology, you don’t hear that very much. You hear, ‘Let’s do more and more and add more functionality.’ And specifically in GTT’s history, it caused problems by overreach, by doing too many things, having limited resources.”
- “We sat in a room and looked around and said, ‘Oh my goodness, look what we’ve been handed,’ as opposed to ‘Look what we have to create.’ We’ve been given, by the onset of AI tools in the last two years, the simplicity of the network infrastructure that we have.”
- “The foundation now is really attuning all of your connectivity options, all of your infrastructure options, to your desired outcomes and not being bound or restricted by legacy technologies.”
- “I don’t think that we’re even close to being truly predictive. But what we do with AI and what we do in this world is we are much, much better suited to do ‘anticipated implications.’ You can generate things like digital twinning; you can use AI to create a virtualized world based on real data.”
- “What’s lagging and what needs focus is the Processes that we’ve had up to this point to facilitate the flow of the business. Your people and technology require a completely new approach. You need to take a step back and look at those processes.”
Episode Resources:
[00:00:00] Intro: Technology has transformed how we live, work, and connect. Behind that change are visionary people with bold ideas. Welcome to The Bridgecast, where host Scott Kinka explores hybrid work, AI, and our evolving future with tech’s brightest minds. Presented by Bridgepointe Technologies, the nation’s leading tech advisory firm. Experience a better way—the Bridgepointe way.
[00:00:35] Scott Kinka: Hey, everybody. After being live for the last couple of episodes at the Bridgepoint Tech Summit 2025 in Miami, we are finally back in the studio. I’m joined by Shane Cleckler, who is the Director of Sales Engineering, and my good friend Jeff Martis, Senior Director of Product Management at Sangoma. How are you guys today?
[00:00:56] Jeff Martis: Doing well. Fantastic.
[00:00:58] Scott Kinka: Awesome. I love it. Well, today we’re going to dive into the future of unified communications, the evolution of voice in the cloud, and the role of engineering and partner ecosystems in meeting the customer where they are to help accelerate digital transformation for IT leaders. I want to welcome you both to the show and give you an opportunity to share a bit of your background. Shane, let’s start with you. How did you land here at Sangoma?
[00:01:27] Shane Cleckler: Fantastic. Thanks for having us. I’m from the Dallas area in Texas, so I loved when you said “y’all” earlier. I have been in this space since the very beginning—the end of the nineties and beginning of 2000. I like to joke and say I’ve been in VoIP since the beginning, back when people didn’t even know how to spell it. As you know, it’s all about relationships. A partner I worked with closely snagged me at one point, and that’s how I ended up at Sangoma.
[00:02:08] Scott Kinka: I love that. Jeff, how about you?
[00:02:10] Jeff Martis: Wow. Well, firstly, thanks for having us here. I will say that I have probably been in telecom for as long as when I had hair on top and my chin was actually bald. It’s been closer to 25 years now. Scott, I don’t know if a lot of people know this, but we had the pleasure of working together 20 years ago. I think we were both like 19 at the time—that’s the story I’m going with. I’ve been in telco for some time and it’s a fascinating field. As much as things have changed, everything is exactly the same.
[00:02:50] Scott Kinka: Got it. Where are we speaking to you from right now?
[00:02:52] Jeff Martis: Representing Pennsylvania, actually—right out of Philly.
[00:02:57] Scott Kinka: Speaking of that, here we are talking about remote work. The last couple of episodes have featured quite a bit of conversation about that again. We were super AI-centric there for a while, and now, as we’re getting towards the end of the year, we’re seeing layoffs and return-to-office mandates. You guys are talking to customers all day; what are you seeing in the category of remote and hybrid work? What are your customers asking you to help them accomplish?
[00:03:34] Shane Cleckler: Offhand, they want everything quick, easy, and integrated into every part of their communication. They want voice, video, SMS, faxing, and file sharing all together in one application. On top of that, they want it customizable; they want to make it their own.
[00:03:56] Scott Kinka: Did the pandemic make us all snobs regarding application expectations? Do we have to have one tool to rule them all now?
[00:04:08] Shane Cleckler: Absolutely. During the pandemic, Sangoma already provided a lot of that functionality, but many people weren’t using it. It was funny; they would call and say, “Hey, we have remote workers now, what do we do?” And we’d say, “You already have the tools, you just need to start using them.” That really triggered it all. Once they started using it, that’s when the requests came in: “I want this, I want that, and I want it all to look exactly how I want it.”
[00:04:42] Scott Kinka: Jeff, you and I were working together during the beginning of the pandemic, and we realized we had to send out educational emails to customers just telling them that to survive, they just had to learn to use what they already bought.
[00:04:53] Jeff Martis: Just flip a switch. It was as simple as that. To build on what Shane mentioned, I want to take this opportunity to frame everything. I don’t know how many of your viewers are familiar with Sangoma. We’ve been around for about 40 years now. What started primarily as a hardware company evolved into the UC and collaboration space.
The types of people we’ve dealt with over the last five or six years have been completely varied. We’ve dealt with larger dealer partners, small “mom and pop” bakeries, hospitals, and schools. Everyone had a different take on the pandemic. While commercial businesses could take hybrid work in stride, you can’t do hybrid work with a restaurant. You still need the cooks in there banging pots and making sauces. Schools figured out remote teaching, while retail and manufacturing—huge parts of our business—still needed to exist physically. And obviously, our frontline workers had to show up every day in their protective gear.
[00:06:51] Scott Kinka: Is that where you guys leaned in? You’ve been around for 40 years in a crowded space. What is the differentiator now? Is that focus on specific industries where you have differentiated yourselves?
[00:07:22] Jeff Martis: Absolutely. From a product perspective, here is our key differentiator. The way Sangoma has really differentiated itself is through the concept of cloud, hybrid, and on-prem. There are not too many providers out there who cater across that entire gamut. We’ve worked with cloud providers that are a dime a dozen. We’ve worked with on-prem providers, some of whom decided to get out of that market entirely. We also have that hybrid offering, which has been phenomenal for meeting the customer where they are. They might start in the cloud, realize they need something completely theirs, and then we can move them into a hybrid or on-prem environment that works for them.
[00:08:16] Scott Kinka: It’s funny you mention your competitors, because for many of them, hybrid isn’t a destination. They’ve basically abandoned premise to go all-in on cloud, and they’ve stopped investing in the hybrid model. It sounds like you guys have really landed there.
[00:08:40] Jeff Martis: Absolutely. Representing our UCaaS platforms, I can tell you that many people thought hybrid was just a stopgap measure or a “straddling point.” That is absolutely not the case. Hybrid is a “flavor” that people swear by. It provides site survivability, control, and flexibility. On-prem doesn’t always work for them because they might not have the staff or the time to manage it as their core business.
[00:09:32] Scott Kinka: What are people trying to solve when you’re working with them? Give me a use case where a unique conversation would be difficult in the cloud. Many people are hanging onto their “bird’s nest” of equipment because they don’t think they have an option in between.
[00:09:58] Shane Cleckler: I think the key is remote survivability. There is an education piece to it. Cloud has been pushed for a while, and while it has many benefits, customers sometimes don’t realize they are missing critical pieces like remote survivability. If you can’t afford to be down, how do you solve for that? One way is the hybrid model. You get the benefits of the cloud, but you still have something on-prem that ensures survivability and provides features often found in the premise world.
[00:11:01] Scott Kinka: Let’s unpack that. If I’m on the other side of the table, I might say, “I’ll just build a redundant internet network and I’m good. Why would I need local survivability?” Fight me on that.
[00:11:17] Shane Cleckler: Redundant internet is fantastic, but it’s not a total failsafe. We’ve seen cases where a trackhoe comes and breaks both connections because they are going to the same point in the building.
[00:11:45] Scott Kinka: Got it. And what you’re really leaning into there is keeping station-to-station communication up.
[00:11:52] Shane Cleckler: Correct. Many of our customers—hospitals, manufacturing, schools, lawyers—simply cannot be down. They come to us because they’ve already had these problems, even with dual internet.
[00:12:07] Scott Kinka: That makes perfect sense. Jeff, any other features that are popping off to you? Maybe something related to the alerting conversation we were having earlier?
[00:12:43] Jeff Martis: Before we jump into alerting and AI, I want to mention internet redundancy. Everyone has a second or third circuit now, and that’s fine if you have the budget. Internet is cheaper than the old T1s we used to deal with. One tool in our toolkit is 5G backup. If the internet goes out, those 5G antennas act as a life vest for businesses, especially in remote areas where there is only one physical provider.
But to your question about what partners are asking for: it’s those two letters, AI. It’s the biggest buzzword and the shiniest object in the room right now.
[00:14:29] Scott Kinka: Is it real in most use cases, or do you have customers just asking for “some of that AI stuff”?
[00:14:35] Jeff Martis: That’s exactly it. From a product perspective, I like to ask, “What do you actually need to do?” Let’s not talk about what’s possible; let’s talk about your pain points. This is the consultative approach. What is debilitating your business today that requires you to step out of your comfort zone?
[00:15:09] Shane Cleckler: You’re stealing my part, Jeff! That’s the solutions engineering part. He’s absolutely right. So many companies are still just selling products. Customers come to us stuck on needing “X, Y, and Z” because that’s what they’ve always had. I’ve seen RFPs written for strategic needs that are based on very old phone systems. I tell them: “Tell me what your business issues are and what you’re trying to achieve, and let us create a solution.” Sometimes a solution isn’t a single platform; it’s a culmination of multiple things integrated to solve the problem.
[00:16:11] Scott Kinka: Shane, what would your advice be to a CIO or IT Director trying to rationalize the multiple communication and collaboration expenses they’ve collected since the pandemic?
[00:16:29] Shane Cleckler: Don’t be stuck with the status quo. Be open. Don’t go in saying, “I just need a new phone system.” Go in and talk about your business needs and allow a solution to be created around them. Often, you’ll get features and functionalities you didn’t even know existed that can save you time and money in the long run. If you go in with blinders on, you miss the forest for the trees.
[00:17:32] Scott Kinka: Jeff, you and I have built products together. I feel like voice providers have almost gone back to being integrators. We went from integrators to SaaS platforms, and now the successful SaaS people are acting like integrators again. Am I out of my mind?
[00:18:04] Jeff Martis: You are 100% spot on. It’s like those HGTV renovation shows. In one house, a wall is too colorful and needs to be black and white; in the next house, the black and white is too drab and needs color. No matter what you have, you have to pivot to satisfy needs. The UC world has seen bundled offerings, then a la carte, and now we’re back to bundled. It’s very cyclical, and the only constant is uncertainty.
From our standpoint, we keep things consistent by providing solutions, not just “widgets.” We’ve spoken to customers on other systems who were having issues, and we found out they just had firewall whitelisting problems or needed better IT staff. Once that was fixed, they were fine. I’m not trying to force people out of their comfort zone; I just want them to think about what they are trying to achieve rather than just following the latest market trend.
[00:20:13] Scott Kinka: I love that. I have one more quick question. You mentioned how long Sangoma has been around, through various iterations and acquisitions. It’s a blended portfolio of intellectual property, yet many listeners might not have heard of the brand because you are very “partner-first.” Why is that your strategy?
[00:20:54] Jeff Martis: You’ve heard the adage about “one throat to choke.” I like to think of it as “one hand to shake.” We believe that to be a reliable vendor, we have to prove we can work on relationships. It’s a two-way street. We meet the partner nine-tenths of the way, and they go that last tenth with the customer. We provide the right tools, support, and billing options—whether we bill the customer directly or let the partner handle it. We cater our business to those partners.
[00:22:21] Scott Kinka: That makes perfect sense. Guys, let’s do a lightning round with the time we have left. I need a bold prediction. Shane, what’s something that will surprise people about the future of voice or collaboration?
[00:22:58] Shane Cleckler: Bold prediction: UC is going to redefine itself. It’s not just voice and video anymore. It’s going to incorporate every other part of your business: digital signage, notifications, video surveillance, access control, and environmental sensors. When all of that is integrated, the possibilities are exciting.
[00:23:54] Scott Kinka: UC is going to annex other domains. I like it. Jeff, give us a contrarian or controversial opinion about the future of work.
[00:24:11] Jeff Martis: Regarding collaboration tools: everyone boasts about having 50 features, but that’s 45 more than I’ll ever use. I think we need to go in the opposite direction and make things simpler. I want to log in, chat, make a call, and move on. I don’t need to change the hex code of a window shade. Simplicity leads to less regret and doubt.
[00:25:06] Scott Kinka: I love that. It’s the end of the world and only one app is still working on your phone. Which one is it? Shane?
[00:25:19] Shane Cleckler: I’m still a voice guy over text. Text can be misinterpreted too easily. I’d rather call you, have a conversation, and get it over with.
[00:25:41] Scott Kinka: Jeff, end of the world, one app?
[00:25:44] Jeff Martis: YouTube. Do you know how many cat videos I haven’t seen yet? Plus, people have self-taught everything on YouTube. If I’m the only person alive, I’ll need those videos to figure out how to do things.
[00:26:05] Scott Kinka: Fair point. Jeff, what’s on your nightstand? What are you reading?
[00:26:13] Jeff Martis: With three kids in sports season, it’s mostly a stack of papers for booking hotels and flights. But for “adulting,” I’m reading The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle. It’s an older book but very relevant to many aspects of my life.
[00:26:49] Scott Kinka: Shane, any books for you?
[00:26:53] Shane Cleckler: Two books. Professionally, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team—our Channel Chief, Susan Levitt, gave me that. Personally, The Balloon Flying Handbook; I am studying to become a hot air balloon pilot.
[00:27:12] Scott Kinka: That is a whole episode in itself, Shane! I have not heard that in nearly 100 episodes. That’s amazing. Shane, what’s a tool or framework you use every day that makes you better at your job?
[00:27:42] Shane Cleckler: It might sound cliché, but AI tools like ChatGPT. Sometimes I get in my head too much and take too long to write something; it helps speed me up.
[00:28:14] Scott Kinka: Jeff, what’s your go-to AI?
[00:28:16] Jeff Martis: I’m old school. My notepad. There is nothing more satisfying than physically checking something off a list.
[00:28:33] Shane Cleckler: I still have one, but mine is on the iPad!
[00:28:44] Jeff Martis: When Moses and I came down that mountain with our stone tablets, you should’ve seen the looks on those faces.
[00:28:51] Scott Kinka: That’s funny. Last one, guys. Shane, one sentence of final leadership advice?
[00:29:19] Shane Cleckler: Adopt servant leadership; stop chasing authority and start earning it by putting your people’s success ahead of your own ego.
[00:29:34] Scott Kinka: Jeff?
[00:29:34] Jeff Martis: Focus on outcomes. If you know where you want to be, you’ll figure out how to get there.
[00:29:54] Scott Kinka: Amazing. Shane, it was great to get to know you better. Jeff, it was good reconnecting with you. For anyone who wants to learn more about Sangoma, what’s the best way?
[00:30:15] Shane Cleckler: Sangoma.com, or reach out to our sales team. We’re both on LinkedIn as well.
[00:30:26] Scott Kinka: Fantastic. This was fun—like putting on an old sweater and chatting about UC.
[00:30:33] Jeff Martis: Nothing like being called an old sweater!
[00:30:41] Scott Kinka: Well, this was amazing. Thank you for joining us on The Bridgecast. If today’s conversation gave you something to think about, please hit subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your team. We’ll see you soon on another episode.
[00:31:19] Jeff Martis: Thanks.
[00:31:20] Shane Cleckler: Thanks, everyone.
[00:31:22] Scott Kinka: We appreciate you spending your most valuable asset—your time—with us. We’re also appreciative of Bridgepointe Technologies for their sponsorship. If you’re thinking about digital transformation or an IT project you don’t have the resources for, Bridgepointe can help. Check out bridgepointetechnologies.com (don’t forget the ‘e’ on Bridgepointe) or reach out to me at skinka@bpt3.net. Until next time—do what you can to be the signal in the noise. Thanks.
