The CIO Playbook for Leading AI Transformation

[00:00:00] Aaron Darcy: Most IT projects don’t fail because of the technology. They don’t. The technology has a purpose. They fail because we didn’t have the right people with the right culture, the right mindset, or didn’t have the process to understand what we were doing with that technology. The technology part always comes last. Sometimes, when we get super excited, we put the technology first. We just have to go back to what we’ve learned, which is what we would probably advise you.

[00:00:21] Intro: Technology has transformed how we live, work, and connect. And behind that change are visionary people with bold ideas. Welcome to The Bridgecast, where host Scott Kinka explores hybrid work, AI, and our evolving future with tech’s brightest minds. Presented by Bridgepointe Technologies, the nation’s leading tech advisory firm. Experience a better way, the Bridgepointe way.

[00:00:56] Scott Kinka: Welcome to another episode of The Bridgecast. This is another episode in our series that we recorded at the Bridgepointe Tech Summit in Miami. At the beautiful JW Turnberry. Have you enjoyed your time here?

[00:01:09] Aaron Darcy: I just thought it’s hot. Old Cuban. I’m from North Carolina. That’s even too Cuban for me.

[00:01:13] Scott Kinka: I love it. Well, this is Aaron Darcy, by the way, in case you didn’t read that in the title of the episode already. Aaron is the Senior Vice President of Corporate Strategy and Go-to-Market for Lumen. Welcome to the show, Aaron.

[00:01:25] Aaron Darcy: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:27] Scott Kinka: Absolutely. And we had a session earlier today on the main stage.

[00:01:30] Aaron Darcy: We did. Summit. That was great.

[00:01:31] Scott Kinka: I appreciate that. How’s it been the last couple of days here?

[00:01:35] Aaron Darcy: Awesome. Love meeting the team. It’s my first time here. You guys are great partners of ours, for sure. It’s just great getting to know how our culture is such a great fit, as well as how some of the needs both you have and we have for the business to grow align. I just love that we have that relationship.

[00:01:51] Scott Kinka: Yeah. It’s amazing. Super thrilled. Well, tell them a little bit about you. I’ll give a little bit of your background—don’t blush. Wealth of experience. Obviously, you’ve been in Microsoft, GE Digital. Now you’re at Lumen. We’re going to explore that a little bit. And at Lumen, you are driving the future of AI-driven connectivity and cloud solutions. Sounds like AI wrote that, right?

[00:02:14] Aaron Darcy: It takes a team effort because if it was just me doing it, it wouldn’t happen.

[00:02:17] Scott Kinka: I love it. Ensuring that businesses can scale and innovate as the AI economy continues to scale. We’re super happy to have you here. Let’s just start—I always like to start these episodes just getting to know you a little bit better. And maybe with a little bit more detail than we had time to get into on the main stage today. Just walk us through that career progression that landed you at Lumen.

[00:02:39] Aaron Darcy: Yeah, for sure. I’m super fortunate. I’ve had some long-standing relationships with some of the Lumen executives. So in some cases, this is multiple companies that we’ve been at together. And what I would say the common thread is transformation. I feel like I’m a builder at heart. I’ve been in big companies, I’ve been in small companies. I’ve been in the startups within a big company, if you can imagine that. And so anytime we’ve got to build and scale, I kind of feel like that’s me.

We were actually doing a speaking engagement with one of our teams, and one of the questions was, “If you had to create a tagline for your product launch, what would it be?” I’m like, this is great. So I asked it. And the one I chose, which I love, was: “Built for scale, wired for impact.” I just feel like that’s such a great phrase.

[00:03:35] Scott Kinka: Built for scale. Wired for impact.

[00:03:38] Aaron Darcy: Yeah.

[00:03:38] Scott Kinka: Let’s explore that a little bit. I took one question; I’m off script.

[00:03:42] Aaron Darcy: I love it.

[00:03:44] Scott Kinka: Okay. Awesome. So, you know, you said you’ve kind of followed some executives around. You’re a transformation agent at the end of the day. I think your title indicates that. We’ll get back to what that means in Lumen in a minute. Let’s just give some advice, because I think CIOs come into businesses at various stages of the business’s scale. And many of them are there to stand it up and keep the lights on, and others are there for digital transformation.

[00:04:11] Aaron Darcy: Yeah.

[00:04:12] Scott Kinka: At some later point. But give us the best advice that you have. One thing, perhaps, that’s around dealing with a giant digital transformation inside of a business. Some words of wisdom they can poster on the wall.

[00:04:25] Aaron Darcy: I think for CIOs today, with what’s going on with AI, cloud, multi-cloud, and just really the explosive growth in technology—and certainly networking and data—you really can’t be an operator. You have to think about transformation. So if you’re not comfortable with that, you’ve got to surround yourself with people that are, because you’re not going to get from where you are today to where you need to go without some type of transformation—transforming your process, things of that nature.

And that’s easy to say, but hard to do. I’ve seen transformations fail because people don’t focus on the fundamentals. With AI, you know, one of the taglines we have at Lumen is: “AI needs data. Data needs data centers, and data centers need networking.” That’s essentially one of the values that we provide. If that data isn’t organized in an effective way, even with all these technologies out there, you’re not going to get any benefits from AI whatsoever.

[00:05:28] Scott Kinka: I love that conversation around not being an operator. It’s been thematic. You weren’t on-site for the open of the show.

[00:05:36] Aaron Darcy: I wasn’t. No, I’m sorry.

[00:05:39] Scott Kinka: But the theme of the show this year was “The Next Wave.” One of the things that we focused on—and I think it’s maybe a little bit of a pertinent story we can riff on for our CIO listeners—is we talked about the Gartner Hype Cycle.

[00:05:53] Aaron Darcy: I always look at that.

[00:05:57] Scott Kinka: I explained it to our strategists and we sort of equated exactly the story you were talking about. We splashed up this slide from Info-Tech, who’s one of our research partners, and it was the top five priorities for CIOs in ’25. All of the items were in the wave—either on the top or slightly slowed down. And what I said was, just because it eventually gets to this Plateau of Productivity…

[00:06:23] Aaron Darcy: So it goes up: Peak of Inflated Expectations, Trough of Disillusionment…

[00:06:28] Scott Kinka: Yep.

[00:06:29] Aaron Darcy: And then a Slope of Enlightenment.

[00:06:31] Scott Kinka: Then you end on the Plateau of Productivity.

[00:06:34] Aaron Darcy: But I actually don’t know right now with AI if we are in the Peak of Inflated Expectations at the top or if we’re already coming down.

[00:06:41] Scott Kinka: Maybe it’s Agentic [AI] on the way up and Generative starting to come down. That was where I mapped it in my slide. That didn’t come from anybody; I just threw you on the curve. The thing that was interesting about it was what we were saying: when you get out on the plateau, the thing to think about is that is generally uninteresting for the CIO because their job is the digital transformation leading that. But the flip side of it is, how do you fund this side without optimizing this side? And that’s a lot of what our partners do. So, I love your idea of “don’t operate it.” And that could mean a lot of things: Lean on your staff, find the right partners. It probably means all of it.

[00:07:20] Aaron Darcy: Yeah. So one of the things that I’ve done pretty much every time—I’ve learned it, so for twenty-five years now—was when I was fortunate enough to work for a CIO. I thought for a long time in the beginning of my career that I wanted to be a CIO. So I worked for a US Investment Bank in information technology, building Java applications. This is when nobody wanted to build Java applications.

Anyway, it was a bank. And so, I’ve been budgeting my team this way forever. We had two categories: Run the Business, Change the Business. So I would encourage everyone: you gotta have some “Run the Business,” operational, keep-the-lights-on funds. You gotta have that. But what are you investing to “Change the Business”? What does that look like? Do you actually have an experimentation fund?

I actually think that if CIOs think that way, then at least you know the bets that you’re making, and you could do it with confidence. You don’t want to put everything in the “Change Business” bucket because that’s thrashing. That’s not helpful. But you gotta pick some bets. And just like with any bets, some are going to pay out, some won’t. But you have to have the operational structure and funding to go do that. I find personally that when we’ve deployed that structure with my teams for twenty-plus years now, we always learn something. Then what was in that bucket this year becomes kind of a “Run the Business” item next year.

[00:08:56] Scott Kinka: Next year.

[00:09:04] Aaron Darcy: Yeah. I think the hardest part too is that Hype Cycle takes so long to play out.

[00:09:12] Scott Kinka: It totally is so long. Or, I mean, I think the feeling is it’s happening faster now, perhaps around AI.

[00:09:18] Aaron Darcy: It’s interesting. One of your questions that I was going to—and you didn’t ask it, which is totally okay—was, “Hey, with the commoditization of AI…” And I’m like, it’s not commoditized. I feel like because of social media, we’re just learning all of this stuff and seeing many more examples right in front of our face than we have before for any other technology trend. But generally speaking, technology trends play out just like all trends. This one for sure will happen faster because it’s AI. You got more companies and just more money in general going into it. If you look at where private investments are going right now, where startup capital is going, it’s all AI. That’s the lead category. And so I think you’re seeing more and more of that, but we’re just starting.

[00:10:05] Scott Kinka: Yeah.

[00:10:06] Aaron Darcy: Right. I mean, we’re just starting. And it kind of goes back to: most IT projects don’t fail because of the technology. They don’t. The technology has a purpose. They fail because we didn’t have the right people with the right culture, the right mindset. Didn’t have the process to understand what we were doing with that technology. And the technology part always comes last. Sometimes when we get super excited, we put the technology first.

We just gotta go back to what we’ve learned, which is what we probably advise you all of the time: Slow down. What business problems, what outcomes are we going after? What problems are we trying to solve? Are your people in with it too? What is the process that has to change as a result? Which is why I poke on dirty data. Because if you have dirty data, it’s a process that you gotta fix. AI is never going to fix that. So, yeah, it’s no different than any other transformation. It’s just right in front of our face. And we’re all using it too. This is what’s different this month: we’re all using it and our kids are using it too.

[00:11:07] Scott Kinka: Let’s explore that a little bit. I think there are kind of two categories in the pantheon of big IT transformative projects. Whatever the project du jour is, they kind of fall into two categories. There are infrastructure-oriented projects that certainly become transformative for the bottom line of the business maybe, but aren’t end-user affecting. Then you’ve got the technologies that live over here that are kind of line-of-business, end-user affecting.

That’s just maybe a little bit of a different mix on what you just said, but it’s sort of the same thing. If the project is going to fail on that end-user side, it’s generally not the technology’s fault. It was an implementation issue. I think one of the questions I have for you as we move towards AI—and obviously we will tie this back to Lumen as the network powering AI, if you will—but have we learned the lessons in the IT shop about being partners with the line of business from the last couple of times we’ve screwed this up to be able to do it better this time?

[00:12:12] Aaron Darcy: I don’t know. Here’s what I do know. I know that line-of-business infrastructure, we were thinking that way twenty, twenty-five years or so ago. 90% of IT projects still fail. Roughly. Maybe it’s 85. Whatever the number is, it’s a high degree. So chances are the old way of doing things isn’t the right way to do things going forward.

And so what I would encourage everybody is: even if you’re in the infrastructure world—and we’re in the infrastructure business—you gotta tie it to a business outcome. If you don’t tie it to some line-of-business outcome, it’s not going to get funded. At the end of the day, so what? Who cares? So you gotta tie it to a business outcome of some sort.

[00:12:53] Scott Kinka: I think it’s finding those that can sometimes be the problem. Like, it’s kind of like asking your CIO to roll out the sales force automation tool. Well, the technology part of that’s really easy. We bought SaaS, so we got to make sure you can authenticate too. I want to make sure the data is clean. But the reality of it is the business kind of needs to roll it out. So who’s ultimately responsible? I feel like on the AI side, we’re like, “Go get it, go get it, go get it.” And then meanwhile, employees are off on their own trying to improve their job, doing it themselves. I mean, maybe we just need to go find new use cases there.

[00:13:26] Aaron Darcy: Yeah. I feel like people always gotta figure out what problem they’re trying to solve. If you’re just doing a CRM implementation for the sake of upgrading, what problems, what change are you trying to solve?

I can tell you we’re going through all those transformations in our systems because Lumen today is not your mama’s Lumen. Newer brand, five years old, different companies, different brand names, mergers—Qwest, Level 3, CenturyLink, etc. All coming together. And we didn’t really spend the time, the calories, the energy to integrate all of that. So what’s happening now is all of our leaders who feel a vested interest to get that right—the business leaders are definitely involved. And I give our IT leaders credit because they’re not actually working on large projects unless they got that level of engagement done from the business to make sure they’re answering that question: So what? Who cares?

[00:14:22] Scott Kinka: Yeah. Okay. So let’s transition to the Lumen story on that.

[00:14:25] Aaron Darcy: So what? Who cares?

[00:14:26] Scott Kinka: Yeah. Okay. Right. How long have you been at Lumen? Fourteen months?

[00:14:38] Aaron Darcy: Fourteen months.

[00:14:39] Scott Kinka: Okay. So, you had a charter. What was the charter? How’s it going? What’s come out of it so far?

[00:14:40] Aaron Darcy: The charter was “Help Us Grow.” It’s that simple. And I feel like we’re doing a great job of that. We’re super clear on our strategy. And so, for us, we’re deep-rooted in three things.

Number one, just showing that we are continuing to invest in that physical infrastructure that many companies that we partner with, and many of our customers, know Lumen for. One of the best fiber backbones and metro networks out there, delivering what we call Rapid Route wavelengths with SLAs of twenty days or more for the connectivity that you need to be where you want it. Partnering with data center providers, partnering with hyperscalers. We’ll have 90% cloud on-ramps by the end of this year to all of those hyperscalers—Google, Microsoft, Amazon. So that core infrastructure, we continue to invest in.

People built for that for quite some time. And that investment continues—47 million miles of fiber that we’ll have available in the US alone. What’s changed is this notion of how do we quantify telco and have this digital platform, if you will. Network-as-a-Service to really bring a lot of the modern experiences for consuming technology, for consuming infrastructure to companies. Networking really hasn’t been consumed that way.

[00:16:01] Scott Kinka: Yeah.

[00:16:02] Aaron Darcy: You know, maybe you see the status in a portal of where things are at, but you can’t go up and down. You can’t flex up and down, move connections. So we’re providing all of that. All of the network services in a software platform called Lumen Connect, really building around this Lumen Connectivity Fabric. So number two is that digital platform. You got the physical, you got the digital.

And probably what’s really unique for us is, no different than what happened in the cloud spaces, the third pillar for us is we’re looking to build that connected ecosystem with all of our partners, the leaders of the world, folks like yourselves, because we can’t do it alone. We know we can’t do it alone. And we also know that our customers, our end customers, want solutions to solve their outcomes. And so sometimes that’s just not infrastructure. That’s infrastructure and a third-party partner that has technology that they want as well, whether it be Commvault or NetApp or folks of that nature.

So the strategy is super clear. And getting really back to your question, I think the challenge right now is how do we help everybody understand that three-pronged strategy? How do we help the company orient around that strategy? And then how do we help our partners and our customers and bring them along that journey so that they can actually lean into the new Lumen? Because it’s not your mom’s Lumen.

[00:17:15] Scott Kinka: Yeah. I mean, most of the folks who are listening to this podcast who’ve been in tech for ten years or more probably had some relationship with one of the brands you mentioned. Now they become part of it. Maybe it was a good experience, maybe it wasn’t. Ultimately, now these assets have all come together.

[00:17:36] Aaron Darcy: Or maybe it’s just the company and [Apple’s severance].

[00:17:38] Scott Kinka: Yeah. There is that too. But it is a different way of thinking about it. I mean, it occurs to me at the same time you’re bringing these at one point disparate assets together to build them into a fabric that’s moldable and easily able to morph into what the customer needs. This is all happening at the same time the logical construction of what we consider to be “network” is changing dramatically since the pandemic. The offices don’t matter anymore. Now we have a million little offices. But then also importantly, and in particular with AI, it’s also network proximity to services.

[00:18:18] Aaron Darcy: Yeah.

[00:18:19] Scott Kinka: I mean, we would have never had that conversation back in the day. You know, SaaS was a thing that rode over the network, not the thing. In a lot of ways, how does that change your thinking as a product leader in what you’re trying to chase down for Lumen’s network?

[00:18:33] Aaron Darcy: So we fundamentally believe that the networks of today were kind of architected for Cloud 1.0. Right? To your point. There’s this whole push of Cloud 2.0. So as a trend, even cloud is still relatively early. Ten, fifteen years depending on who started when. And so those networks really haven’t modernized. And so we’re helping all of our customers modernize all of those networks to get ready for AI.

You’ve got bandwidth bottlenecks and choke points. We live in a multi-hop world. Chances are all the CIOs out there have multiple cloud vendors—not just the Googles and the Amazons or Microsofts—but they have multiple SaaS providers. They have multiple data center providers because even those hyperscalers live in those data centers as well, or they have their own technology in those data centers. And a lot of ones still have some on-premise location.

They want to manage all that fabric, if you will, in one unified way. And that’s really what Lumen is delivering. And we want to make sure that in the future, you can design, price, and order the network that you need going forward, managing all of those endpoints. And then when you do need direct high-speed connections to those clouds, those cloud on-ramps, we’ll make those available to you as well.

So that’s really what’s different now. I think the design of network 1.0 from an upper perspective had all of these choke points and hairpins and bottlenecks. And at the end of this, fabric and mesh is what really customers need going forward, and that’s really what we’re building with Lumen Connect and the Lumen Connectivity Fabric.

[00:20:06] Scott Kinka: Got it. That feels a lot like, as you’re describing it, the way that IT leaders have started to think about networking really driven by the hyperscalers. Right? And granted, the physical part of that network is not there that you’re talking about, but the point of view is there.

[00:20:24] Aaron Darcy: It’s there with Lumen though, just to be clear.

[00:20:27] Scott Kinka: Yeah. Well, you know what I mean? On the hyperscaler side, you’re accustomed to, “Yeah, I’m going to wire this up this way.” But it felt very logical. Very Layer 3, you know, Layer 4. And it’s amazing to think that we could get there. The mission is to get there with the physical assets as well. It’s kind of like if I’m oversimplifying: take the locations that are unique to your business—headquarters, whatever—connect them onto your fabric, and the fabric’s connected to the places you want. I mean, dramatic oversimplification.

[00:20:58] Aaron Darcy: That’s exactly the growth strategy for us from a product perspective.

[00:21:02] Scott Kinka: Got it. How much of the Connect product is in place today?

[00:21:07] Aaron Darcy: Yeah. So, we’ve got over a thousand Network-as-a-Service customers. That’s the basis for that Lumen Connect product as well. Lots of brand names, that number continues to grow. And really what’s driving that is the flexibility to control better. You had customers having to manage all those endpoints and those network connections the way they need them to flex them up and flex them down depending on those peak workloads that they want.

Also, starting to leverage this notion of security continuing to be an important part in networking. And one of the unique differentiators that Lumen can provide is we can actually secure at that lowest level of the network flow, versus a lot of other security platforms. We can feed, working with those providers, all of the threats that happen in the application layer, in the data layer that maybe traverse on the network, but we can start to catch it right with our Black Lotus Labs solutions and some of that threat intelligence within the connection flow and building that into that fabric as well.

[00:22:06] Scott Kinka: Should IT leaders be expecting security to be built into these networks that they buy in the future?

[00:22:12] Aaron Darcy: I think so. I think if I was an IT leader, I’d expect two things. Security would be baked into the networking solutions that they have, and then also networking providers to work incredibly tightly and well with those security providers as well.

For us, that’s really why we want this notion of Lumen Validated Designs. So it’s quite simple, really. Again, this is not a new idea. Cisco’s had this for quite some time. Reference architectures of their own forever. But knowing how important some of these technologies are, that things work together cleanly. We’re not putting the integration burden on the customer or the partner. How do we come out of the box with a set of validated designs, architectures if you will, where we know the topology works, the integration points work, the connectivity fabric works across those?

So we’ve announced a handful of them. We’re working with all the top security partners, the top storage providers as well—partners like NetApp, partners like Commvault. Making sure that when anything that’s high bandwidth or low latency, that really throttles the network, how can we help our customers deploy those things in concert with each other? So they’re all moving the right direction. They’re all working the same way. Get a certified capacity in a manner that’s backed both by Lumen and that partner. And then it allows a little bit of a blueprint that you could rinse and repeat for all the various locations. Because let’s face it, sometimes the challenge with networking is the way that you deploy and install something at one location might be different than another location, and sometimes you don’t even control those locations fully. Data centers, those hyperscalers, etc.

[00:23:50] Scott Kinka: Sure. I mean, your point is certainly about the reference architecture not being a new concept. Clearly.

[00:23:57] Aaron Darcy: Yeah.

[00:23:57] Scott Kinka: But that’s typically on the hardware and software side, and not necessarily on the networking side. So don’t sell yourself short. I love it. I love that idea as we go. Alright, we’re going to end with some fun. First one, shameless prediction. Can you give me one for the next twelve to eighteen months? It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t even need to be in tech.

[00:24:16] Aaron Darcy: Oh. It’ll be sports-related. Indiana will continue to be a football school. Currently, when we’re recording this, number two in the nation. I’m an Indiana Hoosier. I’m an IU alum, and we’re an NBA football school.

[00:24:26] Scott Kinka: Okay. That hurts me. I think I said that to you earlier. I sent two kids to Penn State. So good for you. Amazing. Alright, second one, this is maybe a little bit more tech. Give me a contrarian opinion, a hot take around AI that you think others may not hold, but you feel strongly about.

[00:24:45] Aaron Darcy: Oh, I think if we were playing baseball and AI was a game of nine innings, I think we’re taking batting practice. We haven’t even started the game. It was worse in the early, early days of AI.

[00:25:00] Scott Kinka: Okay. Um, we love to recommend books on this podcast, so give us something you’re reading.

[00:25:05] Aaron Darcy: I’m a big Brené Brown fan. Dare to Lead. She’s a great author. She’s just not out with a new one. I think we all work in a people business and culture matters. We all read all these leadership books. What I will tell you why I chose that book partially is because I find that a lot of leadership books don’t give you practical tools that you apply. That book actually does. So, Dare to Lead, read my book chops.

[00:25:27] Scott Kinka: Do you think that business leadership books are kinda slept on by IT leaders? Like, they think that’s the rest of the C-suite but not them?

[00:25:38] Aaron Darcy: I’m gonna go out and say that most IT leaders are a lot like me—which is that if they’re going to spend time investing a couple of hours or more reading a book, they want to make sure they get something out of it. And so nine times out of ten, it’s really, really hard to get like something punchy and practical that you can use for business books as well. It’s actually one of the reasons why I like Dare to Lead because it’s super practical. It gives you tools that you could use and deploy.

[00:26:05] Scott Kinka: Alright. Here’s the most fun question. We’ve been doing a lot of futurism talk here. In the future, we’re in some dystopian future—make it whatever one you want.

[00:26:15] Aaron Darcy: Yeah.

[00:26:16] Scott Kinka: And only one app is… Oh, you’re going to be a Star Wars thing, one in my mind.

[00:26:19] Aaron Darcy: Yeah.

[00:26:19] Scott Kinka: Okay. We’re all good. Whatever happens, you only have one app still functioning on your phone. Which one would it be?

[00:26:30] Aaron Darcy: Uh, wait. Probably FaceTime. I’m an iPhone user. Only because I don’t know where my wife and my family are gonna be.

[00:26:38] Scott Kinka: I’ll take it.

[00:26:39] Aaron Darcy: Wanting to see their face.

[00:26:41] Scott Kinka: That’s perfect. That’s an easy one. It’s so funny how often that question devolves into, like, “Well, what kind of future are we talking about?” This is your future. I didn’t tell you whether you’re running from zombies or whether the aliens took over. You pick the one you want. Just tell us something quickly before we wrap about Lumen that maybe people that have done business with you or know who you are would find surprising—something they should be thinking about.

[00:27:09] Aaron Darcy: Yeah. I think we’re still a company in transformation. I think those of us that have joined and have stayed at Lumen, we want to be part of the largest corporate turnaround in history. And that might not mean a thing to any of your leaders or listeners out there. But if you study business, in ten years from now, we want Lumen to be one of those Harvard Business case studies to all those smart MBA students about how you take a company that was never integrated, didn’t necessarily have a very cohesive strategy in how we’re gonna grow, and then the people leaders then turn it around into a really growth company that’s a core part of the economy of the AI economy.

[00:27:55] Scott Kinka: That’s amazing. Yeah. Aaron, I’ve been super impressed in my time with you. So if there’s any indication that Lumen’s heading in the direction you want, thank you so much for your time. I am so appreciative of you spending your time with your show and also for this episode of The Bridgecast.

[00:28:09] Aaron Darcy: Awesome. Well, I love the pod. Love what you guys are doing as well. So thanks for having me.

[00:28:12] Scott Kinka: Amazing. Fantastic. And thank you out there in TV land and listening to us in your car or on the treadmill. We are so thrilled that you could join us. We recognize that your time is very valuable. We’re happy to have had some of it today, and we look to hear from you soon or see you soon on another episode of The Bridgecast. We appreciate you spending your most valuable asset with us, your time. We don’t take that lightly.

We’d also like to say one more time that we’re appreciative of Bridgepointe Technologies and their belief and sponsorship of this show. We hope that if you or someone you know is thinking about your company’s digital transformation or next IT project that you may not have the resources, budget, or time to get to, I’m sure that Bridgepointe, one of the country’s fastest-growing technology advisory and procurement firms, can help.

Check out bridgepointetechnologies.com. Don’t forget the ‘e’ on Bridgepointe, or simply reach out to me at skinka@bpt3.net. Also, take a minute, please, if you would, to give us a five-star review on your favorite platform. It helps give us the visibility to reach other people like you. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Bridgecast. I’m Scott Kinka. And until next time, there’s a lot of noise out there in business and in life. Do what you can to be the signal.